MyDD :: Elitist? Is this the best you've got? Bring it on

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:56:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

-Funny this is a democratic page do you have a link to someone here suggusting that BO is a Muslim???

Who on this page suggested that BO is not Black enough? HRC??? Her campaign. Are you suggesting anyone in her campaign is doing this???-

So quick to victimization. The diarist didn't say any such thing and you know it. And you're so quick to bring up strawmen right after you use one!

And are you seriously comparing Obama getting into Harvard on the strength of his grades with being worth a fraction of what either of the two candidates are currently worth?

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:03:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Did i say this?

"And are you seriously comparing Obama getting into Harvard on the strength of his grades with being worth a fraction of what either of the two candidates are currently worth?"

No this is a strawman. First i suggest something i have never said.

What i said was this "And one last thing. BO is a child of privilege and he lived with family that were the oppposite of poor."

So again you have twisted my words.

Finally, this is the first sentence of the thread "I love this. First Obama wasn't Muslim" so i think i link should be provided.

david

Re: Elitist (2.00 / 1)

David. Here's the link. I'm surprised you missed this moment, but I take it on good faith you will retract that strawman argument now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/03 /hillary-obama-not-muslim_n_89546.html

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:09:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

take it on good faith you will retract that strawman argument now.

See below. I take it on faith that you will correct the record that you omitted a critical part of HRC statement to make you argument. That my friend is one aspect of a strawman argument. Unless you suggest that HRC did not say this,

"You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?" Kroft asked Sen. Clinton.

1. "Of course not.

2 I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that.

3. I take him on the basis of what he says.

4. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that," she replied.

I guess you forgot to mention this in you post. I am sure this was just and oversight.

david

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/02 /clinton-as-far-as-i-kno_n_89488.html

Here's your link, David. Please try to be more prepared next time on current events.

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:10:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:20:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And here is what HRC said and i guess you forgot to write this.

"You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?" Kroft asked Sen. Clinton.

"Of course not. I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that," she replied."

And upstate girl please be more prepared to defend your statements. What it looks like is someone forgot to post this part of HRC statement. Is there any way these words from HRC can be parsed to mean anything other than what they say.

1. "Of course not.

2 I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that.

3. I take him on the basis of what he says.

4. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that," she replied.

Please stop your condensending tude with me. You post is not rigerously presented. Your own link undercuts your argument.

You should be ashamed of your self for you comment to me that undercuts your own statements.

david

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As far as parsing goes, you've already tried to insinuate that someone at MyDD said those words about Obama, and when presented with proof that yes, those words came out of her mouth, you continue to parse them more. Unfortunate slip? Probably, and not worth the big deal you're making out of it - especially when its not even the subject of the diary.

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Again HRC never said this. This is untrue. i have posted what she said and aftet that it seems hard to understand how anyone could suggest that HRC was suggesting BO was a muslin.

daivd

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:35:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You flipped your wig when you read the first sentence of this diary, and demanded to know where on MyDD someone said that Obama wasn't a Muslim, as far as they knew. And lo and behold:

""You said you'd take Senator Obama at his word that he's not...a Muslim. You don't believe that he's...," Kroft said.

"No. No, there is nothing to base that on. As far as I know," she said."

Did she say it? Yep.

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:57:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

David.

I think it was Hillary who equivocated on this. She said Obama wasn't a Muslim, as far as she knew. No strawman. Everyone got the lack of a resounding 'NO he isn't.'

As for you concept that Obama was the child of a privileged family: have you read his autobiography? Obviously not. There is some money on his mother's side, way up the line, but his father was Kenyan and abandoned him to a one parent family. His Kenyan relatives live in very modest circumstances.

OK. He got into Harvard and excelled there (is this because he was rich, no - because he was bright) but then what did he do? Rather than go to Wall Street, or like Hillary, work for Walmart, he got lowly paid jobs as a community organiser in Chicago.

Yes, when he became a state senator, he was in an Elite. When he became a US senator, even more of an elite. He earned four million dollars over four years, mainly due to his book. That's pretty high earnings.

But compare this to Hillary. We're talking a magnitude of hundreds of millions of dollars by comparison.

So don't give me the 'privilege' story. All politicians become relatively privileged.

But of the three candidates still running for presidency, you'd have to be willingly blind or stupidly partisan to follow this line of attack against Obama. It sticks much better to Hillary or McCain

Just sayin

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:14:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

First off i have a very good memory. This is not what she said.

"I think it was Hillary who equivocated on this. She said Obama wasn't a Muslim, as far as she knew." You very conviently omited what she said before this which was when she said "of course not". Funny how you forgot to post that. I am sure that was just an oversight by your part.

And funny how comfortable you feel parsing HRC words so as they fit what you want them to say. Are you suggesting that "as far as i know" means anything more than that. This is typical of what BO and his campaign do. They parse every word from HRC to say not what HRC said but what they want her to say.

And since you bring this up his wife made almost 400k at the University of Chicago Hospitals. Doing outreach. Almost 400k. Do you know that is almost 3x want an asst prof in medicine makes. So give me a break. I think people who work hard and make good money is cool and deserved. But please i know what it is like to come from a working class family when you have to go to city college because your family cant pay for private school. So when we hear someone go on about how working class voters are bitter you might think about how upset that makes some people.

david

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:20:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

David. Let's not start trading ad hominems. You have no idea how tough my background was either. But if we're making judgements on candidates because of their experience of poverty, Obama would win hands down on every count.

Yes, the 'bitter' phrase did sound a bit odd in that transcript. But the explanation yesterday make it crystal clear. He's talking about how anger at the economy hasn't found a proper political expression in the last decade or more, and that working class votes will be diverted into issues like gun licenses, gay weddings etc by cynical republicans who then offer tax cuts to the rich.

As a democrat, I would have thought you would agree with this diagnosis.

Of course, unless you're just more interested in any angle of attack which will undermine the leading candidate, in which case, you'll join McCain in trying to make a big deal about Obama being elitist.

Don't expect too much success on that one though

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:27:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I never made a comment on what you or anyones elses backgound is other that BO.

Well we can just agree to disagree on what BO said and leave it at that.

david

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Those words are exactly what she said. She said more, but she said those words. You're one to be parsing for meaning after twisting Obama's words out of joint so far they scream.

I'm sorry if you don't think the Obama's are currently poor enough for you to understand what its like to struggle, and therefore that discounts whatever they say about the subject entirely. By any honest intellectual standard, you would judge the other two candidates even more harshly.

by giusd on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:30:50 AM EST
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Again you are parsing my words.

I never said.

1. Obama's are currently poor enough for you to understand what its like to struggle.

2. I discount whatever they say about the subject entirely.

3. how i judge other candidates.

and finally we can agree to disagee about what i think BO words mean. It seems very clear to me but people can disagree.

david

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:53:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, we're certainly going to disagree, but its pretty telling that you had to go through numerous arguments that didn't have anything to do with what he said at all before you could finally lay it to rest as a "difference of opinion". Its pretty clear what your opinion is being colored by, and its not facts.

by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny this is a democratic page do you have a link to someone here suggusting that BO is a Muslim???

TexasDarlin posted some filth that included two or three variations on the Obama-is-a-muslim thing. And that wasn't even the most despicable thing in it. She deleted it after it was pointed out to her how ignorant, racist and hateful it was. Surprising someone had to point that out to her, but I guess she didn't want to get banned again.

And one last thing. BO is a child of privilege and he lived with family that were the oppposite of poor.

Yeah, his millionaire single mother and superwealthy grandfather the furniture salesman?

You people just make this crap up as you go along, or did you make up some website (Crankopedia?) as a central site for your delusions, illusions and fantasies (you could call it "Tuzla.com"!)

no, its just the tip of the iceberg (none / 0)

finally showing itself above the water. Obama's in some trouble here...any more gaffes like that and his chances at the nomination evaporate.

by 4justice on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:52:48 AM EST

Re: no, its just the tip of the iceberg (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I'm happy this happened because it showed exactly how Obama will not be swiftboated by lies and distortions attributed to him. I'm proud he stood up and didn't apologize for telling the truth.

by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, its just the tip of the iceberg (2.00 / 2)

I love the smell of wish fulfilment in the morning.

Don't hold your breath waiting for his candidacy to evaporate. You'll expire

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:59:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elitist? Is this the best you've got? Bring it (2.00 / 3)

Obama said the truth. He just didn't phrase it correctly.
HRc and McCain are on the wrong path when they call Obama 'elitist' when he was raised by a single mom and raised him by his hand.

McCain is worth $110m- which he married into and comes from a family of Admirals. HRC made $109m and plays the 'victim'.
They are the elitists.

A former hillary supporter.

by Cristalgirl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:03:37 AM EST

Re: Elitist? Is this the best you've got? Bring it (2.00 / 2)

The good thing about this is it shows the SDs one more time how he swiftly counters attacks on him, as he (or HRC) will undoubtedly have to do many times during the GE. He even tends to turn it in his favor. There is no use looking for a candidate that the Repubs won't be able to attack - they will attack any we nominate. What the SDs are looking at is how they flick it aside and go on. As opposed to Bosnia which doesn't go away because her own husband brings it up again (and explains that it was because she's 60 and it was late). LOL. How can that not concern SDs when they see her campaign is so undisciplined.

by Becky G on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:08:46 AM EST

Blip in the blogosphere. (2.00 / 1)

Americans forget things pretty quickly. As soon as the MSM gets over it, people will stop thinking about it. People on blogs are the ones who keep score on everything -- just so we can have more ammo to use every time a candidate does something questionable. How many diaries have there been on this so far? We need a better scandal because this is boring the hell out of me.

by sricki on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:36:01 AM EST

Re: Blip in the blogosphere. (2.00 / 2)

Sricki. You're a gem. And always the first to come up with an 'out of the box' remark.

:-)

I agree. The scandals are getting really tired these days. Professor with a p or not. Bittergate. Bill talking agains about Tuzla.

The 80s and 90s were much better for scandals. If only one of the candidates would hire a call girl, or scream during a debate or something fun. Especially if it's McCain!!

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:44:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blip in the blogosphere. (2.00 / 1)

LOL, I wish we could find out McCain had some interesting fetishes, or something -- a creepy foot fetish might be good. That'd be entertaining. Or maybe we could find out that Mark Penn enjoys toe-sucking? Oh wait... that's an old, tired one now, too. Damn Dick Morris. He ruins everything.

by sricki on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As always... (2.00 / 2)

...I think Brits led the way on toe-sucking. Fergie taught Dick Morris everything he knows on that score.

Don't you just wish you had a hereditary head of state though like in our little medieval Kingdom. No primaries to suffer, you'd just get the son of the previous head or state, or the wife...

Ooops. In the new MYDD spirit of friendliness I take that last remark back

:-)

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As always... (none / 0)

Heh, I know the dynasty thing freaks a lot of people out. It's odd, I suppose, but I think Hillary would make a much better president than Bill -- otherwise I wouldn't be voting for her.

I like the new spirit of friendliness, though I don't think it's progressed very far yet. That's obvious just from looking at the rec list. Of course, it's natural that it should be worse today with bittergate in full force. And there are a few people around here I just can't be nice to, so I've decided to ignore them as much as possible.

by sricki on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As always... (none / 0)

I know the feeling. I assume you get hateful stuff from Obama supporters, which I don't get. But just look at this thread.

I've had Trickster telling me to f*koff ***hole and some other idiot keep calling me a limey and telling me I'm not wanted here.

Do you get that from Obama supporters. I hope not.

I don't mind it from those two guys though. Show's me their losing it. Squish the trolls. Whatever side they're on!

by brit on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As always... (none / 0)

I saw a lot more hateful stuff from Obama supporters on DKos, but it really isn't so bad here. There's one Obama supporter who's had the comment, "Fine, you take the bitch -- I won't be voting for her in November," hidden multiple times (because he's stupid enough to have said it more than once), but I don't see that level of animosity from you guys very often on MyDD. That guy's always been especially caustic.

I don't think anyone's ever told me to f*ck off... I didn't even realize people used the term "limey" anymore. My mom's obsessed with Brits. She's weird. She always wanted to marry a man with an English accent, but there aren't many available here in the Deep South.

I keep getting the impression... I don't know, it seems like there's more immaturity (on this site) coming from Clinton supporters. Immaturity as in childishness -- not only in terms of what they say, but the way in which they say it. It reminds me of some of my friends back when I was in middle school. Again, it's not that many people, but they're very vocal. Maybe it's because Hillary's behind. Maybe it's because people realize there aren't a lot of legitimate ways left for her to win the nomination. Even when I was in "I hate Obama" mode, I never wanted the super delegates to give it to her if she didn't win the popular vote OR more delegates. I just don't think any good can come of that. I think we'd lose the GE.