Whatever happened to "MYDD: The Cesspool of Hate"?

Credit where credit is due, the title of this diary is lifted from the famous Bob Johnson diary where he excoriated this site for some of its nastier posts. There's no need to follow that theme: Something has happened since that diary, maybe because of it.

Certainly some of the more virulent contributors (who I'm pretty sure were just sowing discord for discord's sake) have been booted. And then something even more amazing has happened, a rapprochement: I'm particularly thinking of Sricki's diary yesterday and the comments that followed it.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/9/22273 7/8142

But more of that in a moment.

Full disclosure first: I'm a keen Obama supporter - have been since his speech to the convention in 2004, and since then a close friend became quite high up in his campaign. Before 2003, I would have been completely for Hillary, having followed and supported the Clintons (with some reservations) through the 90s. Given my bias, what the hell am I doing here?

Over the last few months MYDD has topped my 'most visited sites' in Firefox, and for a while I've been wondering if these is not some perverse kind of rubbernecking from me. I'm a Brit whose lived and worked and married in America, but I can't vote in these primaries - even though I often wish I could. I know it will influence my world just as much as yours. But why did I keep on coming to this hot pit of hate? Did I just like seeing democrats tear each other apart? Was I just coming up with great diss lines and insults to use in my writing (I'm a dramatist). Or was something else going on?

Well, fortunately I'm not alone in my addiction. I know now many others around the world, equally hooked on this democratic primary. And for good reason. The passion of the debate, the argument, the out and out yelling match with slamming doors and threatened fisticuffs that has been going on here reflects the importance of the issues at stake. Not just policy issues. Not just the destiny of the world's one remaining superpower - but some of the most intractable problems that face many societies today - especially those twin evils of racism and sexism.

I've been fighting both since I was first politically active in the 1970s. Racism figured slightly higher because of the situation in the UK at that time, and my mixed race family and it's complex heritage. But sexual equality was also a large part of the battle, and though there have been big strides in that direction in the professional orbits of the US and the UK, we know that this is only a tiny fragment of the worlds population.

Though we lost sight of it, this was always potentially tragic and catastrophic that having two huge CHANGE candidates, Hillary and Obama, would be pitted against each other in the same primaries would cause huge frictions. With, emblematically, these two demons of racism and sexism on trial, the potential for catastrophe, for matching one oppression against another, was massive. I've been guilty of it myself. Because both issues speak to identity, the debate easily becomes viciously ad hominem or ad feminem, and so we're cornered, trading personality traits and insults.

But some people been big enough to get beyond this. It helps to have someone as blunt speaking (and frankly dead funny) as Bob Johnson. But it also took a huge step from Hillary supporters like Sricki to begin to get over the need to be right, to attack your opponent. Huge kudos to her for owning up to some of her extremes. Kudos to every Obama supporter who does the same. It's not about joining hands in some happy clappy Kumbaya - but realising that the other people feel different pains, want to tackle different oppressions.

So now I know the reason I needed to keep coming to the cesspool of hate (as Bob Johnson did too). The anger was out there. The boil needed to be lanced. This festering bottled up issues needed to be aired, fought over. Somehow we've gone beyond triangulation in the process. The DNC freeper lookalikes have been outed and ousted. People no longer link to the worst republican smears about Hillary or Obama. Yes, triangulation doesn't work. Sometimes you're enemy's enemy is, actually, your enemy too

So perhaps after all, as some people have maintained, the last few weeks have shown how this hydra headed nightmare can have had beneficial effects for democrats.

And one thing I now understand, having read diaries by people like Sricki, no democrat can win the GE without finding a unified theme again. If is Obama who wins the nomination, he would have not only been tried and tested by two of the smartest politicians of his generation: Bill and Hillary. If he beats them fair and square, he will DESPERATELY NEED former Hillary supporters.

Given the passion and commitment and honesty some real Hillary supporters like Sricki have shown, their support is vital, persistent and ground changing.

If Obama gets their support, McCain will be blown away.


Poll
Was the cess pool of hate?
A necessary moment in a divisive primary
Stoked up by republicans
Stoked up by the media
Due to the intolerance of Hillary supporters
Due to the intolerance of Obama supporters
A moment of madness we have all learned lessons from
A moment of truth which it will take years to heal
Just some bloggers getting all het up
A great marketing trick from Jerome

Votes: 24
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Whatever happened to MYDD (2.00 / 2)

This is a great diary.  Thanks.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:26:37 AM EST

Cesspool, Meet Rotorooter (2.00 / 2)

I share your perverse rubbernecking!

Great stuff - I hope to see more of the same.


by jwolf on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:34:11 AM EST

Great diary brit. (2.00 / 2)

I've been giving this some thought lately and here's something I came up with.

We Dems have been angry since 2000 at where our country has gone...independents too and even some republicans. We have watched the treasury drained, our standing in the world ruined, our country's infrastructure fall apart, our public schools become nothing but diploma mills, our factories close down...and on and on.  So in 2006 we came out in force and voted out as many of the worst congresscritters as we could, replacing them with Democrats.  But even though they passed some legislation and did a modicum of oversight, it wasn't enough.  So the anger continues to simmer.

We're all anxious to rid our government of the neo-con PNAC types and the theocrats and we've built up a good head of steam for the fight.  Along comes the primary (aha! a battle!) and we jump into the fray full force.  We're pissed off and we're determined to win this time.

The only problem is that it is the wrong fight.  In our impatience we have thrown off the gloves and started to fight amongst ourselves.  I think we're just starting to realize that the real battle is ahead of us...this was just a warm up.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:38:28 AM EST

Re: Great diary brit. (2.00 / 1)

I think you have a pretty good handle on while we're all fired up for this primary.  We have a long way to go, and I hope we can keep the fire in the belly long enough.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:32:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Forged in conflict (2.00 / 1)

I came to MyDD because my work allows me time to post to the internet, but the draconian firewalls emplaced by my employer prevent me from going to many of the sites I enjoy.  They still haven't blocked politics and news sites, so I decided to get into political blogging.

When given the options of DailyKos or MyDD (the two I was most familiar with), I chose MyDD because, even though I'm an Obama supporter and it was hostile territory, I don't think that there's a lot of good to be done in getting the word about Obama out on Kos.

I've no interest in demonizing people; I just want to make sure that our long national nightmare of corrupt Republican rule ends, and Obama is the candidate who embodies my built-up anger over the modern truths of politics: conservatives will do anything for power while liberals are unwilling to fight for their beliefs.  Obama will fight as hard as anyone, but he won't just do anything to get elected.

Yesterday there was a diary posted from an incredibly popular but controvercial diarist asking a lot of questions about Obama's origin, implying that he was, perhaps, a marxist Islamofascist ultra liberal Republican-worshipping manchurian candidate, and went on to refer to, among other sources, the website "Freedom's Enemies," a site that ranks liberals as only slightly less dangerous to America than Al'Qaida.  This diary was erased before I could respond, listing all the neocon sources the diarist used.

When I joined a few weeks ago, this kind of slander would have probably have lasted a lot longer, so I'm going to give credit to the editors for keeping a handle on the site's mission, even as I disagree with many of their takes on the candidates themselves.

When the nomination is decided, I may just move on from here to one of the more sane conservative websites.  That's the next battle, after all.  We can't just continue sitting in our respective corners if we want to build a consensus and get as many as we can on board.  If there's even one moderate conservative that frequents those sites that can be convinced that four more years of Bush's legacy will not be good for the country, then I have to try and convince them.

Here's to keeping an open debate, and let the truth of the Democratic cause sweep all the way to November!


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:38:30 AM EST

Re: Forged in conflict (none / 0)

My feeling too. One should always engage the opposition in debate. I'll probably join you on those  conservative sites later on. After all, if we're just predetermined to vote, and don't have some free though, democratic politics is useless. You can criticise someone else's ideas, even demonise them, but to categorise someone as the enemy, as 'hateful', that's what happened to Wright, and I abhor it.

You know British politics was like this in 80s and early 90s. To me, American politics seemed very centrist by comparison. But for the last eight years ago I've met democrats who won't even date a republican. It used to be that way with Conservatives and Labour, but now they all shag like bunnies.

Not saying that's a good thing, just observing how polarisation can come and go if it's about the issues


by brit on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:51:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yay, shagging (2.00 / 0)

The trick will be to find a conservative site that isn't completely overrun by neocons that won't change their minds no matter how much truth you bring.

One thing that I've learned from this process is that there are a lot more Democrats who are jerks than I originally expected, and a lot more Republicans who are kinda awesome than I'd initially believed.  Doug Kmiec, Reagan's legal council, in particular I thought was very neat... a guy who sees in Obama someone whose politics are the opposite of his, but whose capacity for thoughtful and responsible government overcomes those differences.  These are the types that we need to focus on once the primary is decided.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forged in conflict (2.00 / 1)

Are you refering to that discusting diary written by texasdarling? She then went on to write another diary that same day. How she is still allowed on this cite is stunning and dissapointing.


by lion king on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:24:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh (2.00 / 1)

I wasn't going to mention the diarist by name.

But yes.  I'm a little shocked that someone like that can be banned, then come back praising Lou Dobbs, and then just proceed using the same tactics she was using before getting banned.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:30:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh (none / 0)

Fleaflicker redux.  Are the admins really surprised?


by Skaje on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 07:01:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary, Brit (2.00 / 0)

One thing we need to keep in mind is that if ever there was a man for reconciliation, it's Obama.  We will need the hard core Hillary contingent, not necessarily to win, but to have the Democratic mandate we all desire.  
   For some who are filled to overflowing with anger and bitterness, and there are such in every crowd of politically active people, we won't ever be able to win them over, but we shall continue the good struggle.  Look how far we've come!
by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:32:43 AM EST

Obama (none / 0)

and reconciliation--even with the most destructive republicans--is not the kind of person I want in the WH. He is to arrogant to be truly about reconciliation--this is more rhetoric from him.  Sorry, I'm not buying it.


by 4justice on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:56:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So partisan gridlock is the solution? (none / 0)

Obama will make the repubs take the medicine and like it.  He's been doing it for years.  Some of you find that boring, evidently.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

of course not (none / 0)

but I am bored with Obama's stump speech, which he never changes; his arrogant and flippant remarks; and his claiming that he, and he alone can change the "tone".  Did you know GWB used the same lines..."to change the tone in DC".  No thanks, Obama.  He is so weak he will lose in a landslide to McCain.


by 4justice on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:12:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We'll just have to limp along (2.00 / 0)

without you, LOL!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:24:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So partisan gridlock is the solution? (none / 0)

really?  Obama has been making republicans take the medicine for years???

lol

and that is why the Iraq War is over, right?  And we have UHC and SS/Medicare is in the black.

oh wait, Obama hasn't united any republicans, now has he?


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 12:22:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Er, yes he has (2.00 / 0)

In the Illinois state senate, he got unanimous support for videotaping of murder suspect interviews.

He got Tom Coburn to co-sponsor government transparency legislation.

He got Dick Lugar to co-sponsor nuclear disarmament and disease fighting legislation.

He got bipartisan support for genetic testing legislation.

Reagan legal council Doug Kmiec, Camp Hill, PA Mayor Lou Thieblemont, and former senator Lincoln Chafee are all high profile Republicans that have signed on to Obama's support.

So, yes, Obama has united a good number of Republicans.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 01:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Before you go praising Bob Johnson (none / 0)

someone ought to go over to the Big Orange and write them a diary about the hate-filled site that is dkosobama.  You should see some of his posts about this site over at dkos.


by 4justice on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:55:24 AM EST

Re: Before you go praising Bob Johnson (2.00 / 0)

Last I checked...I was on MYDD.
Frankly, I don't care what's going on on another site. This diary, this discussion, is about this site.
by Kysen on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great diary, thank you. (none / 0)

Soon, we'll all have to get together and find a way to cooperate. If the Democrats manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this year, I'll be devastated. Frankly, I'm broke and literally can't afford another GOP victory, especially considering the Republican candidate is "Mr. Bomb Iran, I have no clue how the economy works" McCain. I have a good bit of respect for him as a person, but he's not what we need.

I think part of the reason a lot of Hillary supporters are upset is, we feel as if we were brushed aside and taken for granted by many people (especially in environments like DailyKos, which I've frequently referred to as DailyBarakos), as if we were insignificant. Obama does need us, and he doesn't just need us to vote for him. Some of us are extraordinarily useful -- we donate, we make calls, we volunteer wherever we're needed. It's okay to be angry right now, but it'll have to end within the next few months. We'll all have to swallow our pride. Divided, the party will fail, and the country will suffer with it. United, we'll take the White House and keep Congress. We'll crush the GOP, and we'll teach them that the "common people" will only allow themselves to be shat upon for a limited period of time. It's a lesson they need to learn. Their arrogance has gone unchecked for far too long.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:10:44 PM EST

I've also been a little weirded out ... (2.00 / 0)

sometimes by the partisan bickering on DKos and here. Both candidates seem to share pretty much the same values and positions, though their approaches and styles are very different.
So why the bickering if we all agree on so much?

I hope that after the nominee is finalized we'll keep the current energy level up, except this time it will all be directed outward against the GOP instead of inward at each other. As you said, there are so many reasons for wanting the democrats to win this time.  

Until then, I'm trying to look for the good side of everybody here and on DKos. Some days it's not so easy, and I've found that I don't enjoy coming here so much.


by professor on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 03:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great diary, thank you. (none / 0)

I don't think the arrogance comes from Obama, or necessarily his campaign, Sricki. It come from his supporters. And it's not really arrogance. It's defensiveness. Remember that he and his supporters feel like they are taking on their parents, taking on some kind of huge machine. And that's where a lot of the misunderstanding arises I think. It's more a generational than a sexist/racist thing. I'm about the same age as Obama, and part of me is traumatised by many years in the wilderness, or with power but disappointed, and many of Obama's supporters don't see why they should play the political game. I think the divergence is even more acute with women. How much shit have they had to put up with for all these years to wait for power? Part the problem is conservatism, and part of the problem is Bill. It's like Hillary had to deal with him before she went for power. And now there's someone jumping the gun. Part of me understands, but another part understands ignoring all guns, cutting to the chase, forgetting the compromises of the 80s and 90s

This probably doesn't make much sense.

But what I do agree with is that Hillary supporters can't be taken for granted. No way. It's nearly a 50/50 split. Whoever wins will actually not win, but will have to make a compromise, and deal with the one who has almost won


by brit on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 08:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever happened to Daily Kos? (2.00 / 0)

Looks like it's still a cesspool of hate to me...and with more than five times as many user i.d.'s/visitors (at the very least), I'd say there are bigger fish to fry (that are still frozen, let alone thawed out) than MyDD.

I'm just sayin'...


by bobswern on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 05:11:42 PM EST

Re: Whatever happened to Daily Kos? (none / 0)

Hey, if you're saying Daily Kos is a bigger pond. No doubt. But do you get challenged there? It's so large, and almost impersonal.

Unlike MYDD I actually got to top of the REC list in DailyKos. But it's so hard to keep track of the commentators. And so easy to fall into your own self congratulatory sub group

Just sayin


by brit on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 08:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most challenges at DKos, IMHO... (none / 0)

...have been quite sophomoric, at best, at least as of late (last 90-120 days).

There are plenty of exceptions, but the intelligent discourse is the exception, not the rule, especially if you're a Clinton supporter.


by bobswern on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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